1g non turbo vs 2g non turbo: PLEASE SHARE OPINIONS

[Pirkeltooned]

Alright so here's the scenario: Building a circle track race car for next year.

Here's the question:
If I put a gun to your head, and said "What would you build, 1g non turbo or 2g non turbo, without touching the engine"

Your answer would be 1g-nt or 2g-nt because __________ ?

Looking for opinions based on experience for: Non turbo vehicle handling, power with stock engine. Assuming no modifications to the engine.

The closest thing i've owned to a non turbo was a mitsubishi diamante LOL even the mini van was turbocharged and awd :(

[all_rice]

2g non turbo is going to be heavier. If you crash and bend a control arm there 200 bucks each and if it needs ball joints you need the whole thing...Ive had 6 neons which is the same bottom end of the n/t 2g they dont like to be constantly reved. Its easier to find parts for a 1g i would say as well.

[northsydryd]

my 2g nt smoked my friends 1g nt in the straights and in the turns.ive never had a problem reving my 420a.its way more reliable then a 4g63,and the parts are just as abundent as a 1g.you figure if avengers talons sebrings and a bunch of other cars are the same as 2g nts and i think it would be easier to find parts for at the junk yards

[all_rice]

i would take a 4g63 over a 420a anyday. your car isnt exactly stock either... Ive had three 420 blocks with spun rod bearings not counting the many cars i bought that already had spun rod bearings. I would say youve been extremely lucky. Dont get me wrong I dont hate the 420a engine it has some good things about it...id just rather have a 4g

[Integra 26R]

:D

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b31/crx26r/Integra26rfrontview.jpg

[Jordan525]

kyle you already got my two cents about it.

[Dustin]

1st gen for sure! way more potential. can rev 1000 more RPM ive had both non turbo and i love the 1st gen way more. you can at least turbo it without having to worry AS much.

[Dustin]

i would take a 4g63 over a 420a anyday. your car isnt exactly stock either... Ive had three 420 blocks with spun rod bearings not counting the many cars i bought that already had spun rod bearings. I would say youve been extremely lucky. Dont get me wrong I dont hate the 420a engine it has some good things about it...id just rather have a 4g

420a=gas mileage
4G63>420a end of story

[all_rice]

yeah I absolutely agree with dustin...there is a guy that has a 1g hornet car and does pretty well with it considering hes racing turbo cars with it and lighter cars.

[Pirkeltooned]

Thanks for the input guys! Here's my train of thought:

Well turbo isn't an option on the circle track :P Its mainly a handling game, and the weight won't be too large of a factor concidering the hacking that'll be done.

As for the engine and suspension, it will receive all brand new oem replacement parts. The engine itself will have all new bearings, all new hardware, all new gaskets, internally balanced and running a heavy weight oil ect... The suspension will receive the same treatment (Yes I realize 2g control arms suck when you need one LOL)

As for power, I've found a large difference in the torque curve of the 420a vs nt 4g63, in favor of the 420a. They also make more power on top end, giving it a better overall curve than the 4g63nt. Now if they were to open up the rules on the engine modifications, the 4g63nt would obviously be my choice... as it's been the engine in 50+ of my cars, and i've never even touched a 420a LOL.

Debate topic: I've never heard bad things about a rebuilt 420a bottom end, however I have heard that the heads (The DOHC 420a's) are resistant against constant high rpm's. Now just to be clear, their will be only weekend racing on the engine with occasional practice sessions. I am allowed to run nice bearings (Such as ACL's) and hardware (Probably ARP) so I am able to beef up the durability of it.

As for the 4g63nt: I personally know 3 or 4 drivers who have tried the non turbo 1g's. They praise the suspension (But 2g has a much better design?) BUT They curse the 4g63's capability to NOT over heat. Now from my turbo 4g63 experience, these engines generally make a little more power when their a tad bit warmer then other 4 cylinders would like. I believe this factors into the raised atmospheric pressure that the boosted engine receives, which wouldn't be a factor. They also complain that they often have over heating problems on fresh engines with all new cooling related parts. One guy I talked with is going to try running an under drive pulley to change the flow through the radiator (As they dont run thermostats) no official word if this helps yet.

Things to keep in mind when voicing your opinion: I have the resources to have a brand new zero mile, never fired never touched 420a installed in the 2g for extremely cheap.... I imagine i could have a 4g63nt rebuilt to about the same quality out at C&S performance (my shop of choice) but definately not cost efficient.

So with my 2 cents added, handling & engine performance with 1g 2.0L 4g63nt vs 2g nt 420a engine? Thanks for the input so far! It helps a ton

-Kyle

[Pirkeltooned]

yeah I absolutely agree with dustin...there is a guy that has a 1g hornet car and does pretty well with it considering hes racing turbo cars with it and lighter cars.

is it yellow? If so I know the guy :P Also does enduro's with it and does quite well (When it doesnt overheat) But it is scary loose in the corners, very easy to lose your line or lose your traction. one thing to think about

:D

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b31/crx26r/Integra26rfrontview.jpg

If I built a GSR, they would probably just ban it from the track by the end of the season. I wanna put some diamonds on the track :D

[Integra 26R]

Thanks for the input guys! Here's my train of thought:

Well turbo isn't an option on the circle track :P Its mainly a handling game, and the weight won't be too large of a factor concidering the hacking that'll be done.

As for the engine and suspension, it will receive all brand new oem replacement parts. The engine itself will have all new bearings, all new hardware, all new gaskets, internally balanced and running a heavy weight oil ect... The suspension will receive the same treatment (Yes I realize 2g control arms suck when you need one LOL)

As for power, I've found a large difference in the torque curve of the 420a vs nt 4g63, in favor of the 420a. They also make more power on top end, giving it a better overall curve than the 4g63nt. Now if they were to open up the rules on the engine modifications, the 4g63nt would obviously be my choice... as it's been the engine in 50+ of my cars, and i've never even touched a 420a LOL.

Debate topic: I've never heard bad things about a rebuilt 420a bottom end, however I have heard that the heads (The DOHC 420a's) are resistant against constant high rpm's. Now just to be clear, their will be only weekend racing on the engine with occasional practice sessions. I am allowed to run nice bearings (Such as ACL's) and hardware (Probably ARP) so I am able to beef up the durability of it.

As for the 4g63nt: I personally know 3 or 4 drivers who have tried the non turbo 1g's. They praise the suspension (But 2g has a much better design?) BUT They curse the 4g63's capability to NOT over heat. Now from my turbo 4g63 experience, these engines generally make a little more power when their a tad bit warmer then other 4 cylinders would like. I believe this factors into the raised atmospheric pressure that the boosted engine receives, which wouldn't be a factor. They also complain that they often have over heating problems on fresh engines with all new cooling related parts. One guy I talked with is going to try running an under drive pulley to change the flow through the radiator (As they dont run thermostats) no official word if this helps yet.

Things to keep in mind when voicing your opinion: I have the resources to have a brand new zero mile, never fired never touched 420a installed in the 2g for extremely cheap.... I imagine i could have a 4g63nt rebuilt to about the same quality out at C&S performance (my shop of choice) but definately not cost efficient.

So with my 2 cents added, handling & engine performance with 1g 2.0L 4g63nt vs 2g nt 420a engine? Thanks for the input so far! It helps a ton

-Kyle

Honestly, you have to learn how to drive it first. All the money spent isn't going to make any difference if you can't get it around the track faster than everyone else. I know plenty of people with very fast cars who have no idea how to set them up and get them around the track. And if you've never done it, you might not even like it. I knew one guy who thought Cavaliers or something with a Quad Four was the way to go and said he'd show them all how to do it. He did one practice day, realized it wasn't going to be what he thought it was and gave up.

[Pirkeltooned]

Honestly, you have to learn how to drive it first. All the money spent isn't going to make any difference if you can't get it around the track faster than everyone else. I know plenty of people with very fast cars who have no idea how to set them up and get them around the track. And if you've never done it, you might not even like it. I knew one guy who thought Cavaliers or something with a Quad Four was the way to go and said he'd show them all how to do it. He did one practice day, realized it wasn't going to be what he thought it was and gave up.

Very true man, i've had the experience of driving a few different cars in the years past, back when rwd and fwd ran in the same class up here. Very hooked and love it :D Just never put a mitsu on the track, trying to set myself up on the best platform I can. I've done just about every type of racing in the area except circle track (Which is what I grew up around oddly enough) so i'm pretty excited that im finally in a position where I can afford to do it.

Im hoping to take advantage of the 2 months of practice that the season kicks off with, hoping to learn a lot about the car itself, my driving style, and any adjustments I need to make to either. Im pretty fortunate in that I have quite a few circle track masters to help me get the hang of things as quick as possible. I certainly over-rated the handling aspect when I first tried it, and well... I know better now LOL To be honest, most of the cars winning in this class started out in the 110-130hp range, which is a good indicator that it's a handling game meant for driver skill. Lots of learning to do!


I am starting to definately swing towards the 2g, I really like the suspension design, lower center of gravity vs suspension travel, the wider wheel base, and although she's a little heavier than the 1g, I think it can be shaved and properly placed wherever I may need to position it. So the next step is to find a solid 2g non turbo :O

[Integra 26R]

it's a handling game meant for driver skill.

Yep.

[all_rice]

well I know where there is a 2g non turbo 5spd sitting. the motor is shot I think the guy would sell it but i would need to find out. i can find out if your interested.